Category Archives: General Glorantha

Giants of the Elder Wilds

Authors Notes

The write up of the Giants and Giant land in the original Griffin mountain (pg199 in the reprint) is excellent , and this article is suggestion for the deepening of the background . There are a couple of places where I have deviated from, the Griffin Mountain original, and this is to attempt to bring the mythos up to date and in-line with current thinking as I found it inconsistent.

The only thing which I take issue with is concept that Gon Orta was 12 meters high in the first age, due to the YGMV(Your Glorantha may Vary) concept, in my games active maturing true giants are never less than 30 meters tall, True giants and common/young/wild giants are two distinctly different races.

go_pass

Summary

There are distinct groupings of active giants in the Elder Wilds and Eastern Rockwood mountains. The first is an organised grouping in Giantland  lead by Gon Orta, this group contain Gon Orta and a number of his closest associates.

The second cannot really be described as a formal grouping, they are a collection of individuals and loners. The wild giants who can be found in most places across the Elder Wilds, causing disorder and destruction either by intent or merely by trying to survive.

A much smaller third group of Giants are called twisted giants and though small in number, they are significant enough to be a cause for concern . First due to their size and then for the regularity at which these beast appear.  Almost always formerly wild giants which are mutated significantly by chaos.

True Giants

True giants are mythic beings who existed early in Godtime and are the compatriots of true Dragons and the Gods themselves, some being parents of the earliest of the Gods. Few of these beings are active in time. Gon Orta a very young and inexperienced true Giants is the only one his kind who is perceived as being currently active in this part of the world. And only a handful have been chronicled within time.

The 11 giants who by Myth and Legend form the  Big Giant Mountains, are all true giants. They are considered inactive by most, and the trolls who burrow in there mountains doubt they are giants at all. Younger common giants often claim ancestry from one of the Mountains but scholar cannot see how this is possible.

The giant cradles which have through time passed down the Zola Fel river are all the babies of true giants. Where these go and what they do after passing down the Zola Fel river has been un-documented, but there have been no well supported myths of adult true giants returning to Giant Land  within recorded time.

True giants are subject to a spiritual journey which they call the Inner Path, this starts with the journey down the Zola Fel and time with Magasta, but will continue through a True Giants life. When asked Gon Orta has explained it would be pointless to try to explain this path to a non giant, and even says common giants cannot comprehend it.

However true giants have a spiritual discipline called Gentling which changes the nature and the intellectual capabilities of common Giants.  This is the teaching of a much watered down and simplified version of the inner path.

Blueface the shaman has been known to say that the big giants are very real and only inactive on this plane. They are spiritual beings that mainly exists and act upon the hero plane at this moment in time. The mountains are only physical shadows of powerful spiritual entities which are active elsewhere.

Gentled Giants

A gentled Giant is a common or young giant who has been disciplined by a true giant for a number of decades and has had their natural associated with the disorder rune broken.  The only gentled giants within the Elder wilds are those who have been taught by Gon Orta.

Gentled Giants act in many ways like oversized humans due their main runic association now being man. They can worship human gods, join and form societies and groups without significant ranchor or strife.

There are a limited number of Gentled Giants within the Elder Wilds known giants are Boshbisil, Hen Cik, Sa Mita and  Bunscoto being the notable ones (all described in Griffin Mountain).

Gon Orta has a desire to mentor more of the Giants of Giantland but the process seems to require willing co operation from the Giant involved which isn’t always forthcoming.

Wild Giants

Most common or young Giants, still have their associations with the disorder rune and  roam the Elder Wilds alone or in small and temporary( for giants ) groups. They are aware and are in awe of Gon Orta, but really have little appetite to follow his rules for any other reasons than fear of the consequences. As such they tend to avoid his castle and have as little to do with him as possible.

They claim ancestry from true giants only because they have heard of Giants do that, and have no real concept on what their relationship with True giants actually is.

They are commonly found in Elder Wilds plains, mountains, non elven forests  and troll strongholds,  They are avoid elf forests and mostali Mountains.  They are highly destructive in nature, but some do seem to  be able to co-exist with and in troll society.

Wild Giant Write ups

  • Ripper
  • Kolsa ta
  • Kanbra Lizard Rider

Twisted Giants

There are a very small number of  giant have succumbed to the taint of chaos, every decade or so one of the Wild Giants seems to be completely consumed by Chaos and transforms itself into a chaotic horror. This are often hunted down by Gon Ortas giants or by the trolls but a few survive hiding out in the mountains or outer  reaches of the Elder Wilds. Occasionally raiding more populated lands.

Gon Orta is deeply concerned about this but currently has no understanding of how or why this is taking place. It is in fact Granny Keeneyes who when she can is luring giants to festering isle, to be corrupted with the lagoon.

Twisted  Giants who are currently known are;

  • Raslan the Melted One – 8 meters tall giant whose flesh seems to be melting and drops an throw gorps form his body.
  • Annis the One Eye – 7 meter giant, with one eye in his head, and very heavy armour plating.

Tradesmen for Population Centres – Orlanthi

OK a really interesting question was made by Doyle Taverner on the Glorantha Google+ Page about stating out Alone and the shape of trades and services which would be found in a city. he references a post by S John Ross’s at

I thought this was a very interesting methodology  but the stats were for a late Medieval  Paris and not an ancient Civilization. I thought it could be improved so I have taken a flying hack at something that may be more suited to Doyles needs and come with a methodology that would suit Gloranthan cultures.

Here is my attempt and it is really a discussion peace and I would like feedback to answer the following questions

  • Does the methodology work and is it sound?
  • Are there any professions I have missed out all together?
  • Are there any professions where the proportions are grossly wrong.

I would love some detailed feedback on this, because I doubt its right first time. The methodology I believe will work for all Glorantha societies, but I think the support value table would be significantly different  for different cultures.

Methodology

I have stolen the methodology in original blog post and I think moved it on a bit. Here

  1. Calculate the entire population that will be served by the main urban centre of the area. In the case of Alone it is the alone confederation of 10,000 people.
  2. Decide on a the number of shape of the settlements in the area. In case of alone in going to invent the numbers of 1000 people in alone and another 1000 placed in 5 surrounding villages.
  3. Divide the total population by the Support  Value to generate the numbers of different Laymen, Tradesmen and Artisans with all the population. See an example table below.
  4. Change the numbers to reflect the following factors as you see fit;
    • Politics
    • Religion
    • Economics
    • History
    • Leadership
    • Making a Fun Game
  5. Assume most laymen will be placed rurally in the clans
  6. Place what you think is the correct proportion of the tradesman and artisans into the settlements you wish to define right now, for Alone I would place most of the artisans and 40% of the tradesmen. Take into consideration the placement advice.
  7. Keep a count of the remaining tradesmen and artisans and place them on the fly or as you want to specify the other urban areas, such as the villages.

Tradesmen Definitions

Layman

A clansmen with the skills or equipment to perform a tradesmen’s role within a clan in conjunction with other responsibilities. So a layman potter could very well be a cottar with responsibility for land and sheep, but has knowledge and skills in pot making which serves the clan and sometimes used to make pots for market to supplement income.  Many sellers at seasonal markets are laymen bringing their wares too trade.

However he cannot support himself full time as a potter. Thus skill levels tend to be lower than full time professionals

Tradesmen

A skilled individuals who support themselves and their family by being employed full time in their profession. Their home is usually there place of business. They can often be approved by their respected guilds in the closest city, and skill levels are usually higher than the laymen.

Tradesmen do not usually employ other people, but may apprentice family members.

Artisan

These a fully fledged business with multiple staff, and often apprentices. the place of business can be away from  the artisans home. Artisans are the major players in any City Guilds.

In theory the quality and skills on offer are better than those of tradesman but this not always the case.

Orlanthi Support Value Table

Profession Support Values Placement
Layman Tradesman Artisan
Artist/Sculpter/Wood Carver 600 2000 4000 Town from Tradesmen
Baker 120 800 1600 Village from Tradesman
Barber 200 1000 3200 Town from Tradesmen
Basket maker 120 800 2000 Village from Tradesman
Bathhouse/Public Bath 1200 6000 Town from Tradesmen
Brewer/Beer Seller 120 1200 3600 Village from Tradesman
Builder 120 2000 8000 Town from Tradesmen
Butcher/Fishmonger 120 600 2000 Village from Tradesman
Candle maker 240 800 4000 Village from Tradesman
Carter/Haulage 120 1600 4000 Village from Tradesman
Cartographer 2000 6000 10000 Small City from Tradesmen
Cartwright/Shipwright 1200 4000 8000 Town from Tradesmen
Cheese-maker 240 1600 3200 Village from Tradesman
Cobbler/Shoemaker 240 1200 3600 Village from Tradesman
Distiller 600 3000 5000 Town from Tradesmen
Engineer/Architect 4000 8000 Town from Tradesmen
Entertainer/Poet/Actor 80 3000 6000 Village from Tradesman
Furrier 240 1000 5000 Village from Tradesman
General Merchant 300 2400 4800 Village from Tradesman
Herbalist 180 1500 3000 Rural or Urban
Horse trader 300 3000 6000 Rural or Urban
Inn 2000 6000 Village from Tradesman
Jeweller/Goldsmith 600 2000 5000 Town from Tradesmen
Lawyer/law-speaker 400 3000 6000 Village from Tradesman
Leather-worker 120 1400 4000 Village from Tradesman
Miller 240 1800 4000 Village from Tradesman
Moneylender/Changer 300 3600 7000 Town from Tradesmen
Pawnshop 250 2400 5000 Village from Tradesman
Physician 180 3000 6000 Town from Tradesmen
Potter 120 800 1600 Village from Tradesman
Prostitute/Brothel 180 600 3600 Town for Artisan
Roofers/Thatchers 240 1500 3000 Rural or Urban
Rug/Tapestry Maker 400 2000 6000 Village from Tradesman
Saddler 300 1600 4000 Village from Tradesman
Sage 300 2500 4000 Village from Tradesman
Scribe 240 3000 6000 Village from Tradesman
Sharpener 120 4000 Village from Tradesman
Slaver 2400 4800 Town from Tradesmen
Spice Merchants 4000 8000 Town from Tradesmen
Stonemason 300 2000 6000 Village from Tradesman
Tailor 180 1600 4000 Village from Tradesman
Tanners 180 1400 4000 Village from Tradesman
Tavern/Restaurant 1000 2000 Village from Tradesman
Tinker/Redsmith 240 1000 3000 Village from Tradesman
Vintner/Wine-shop 300 1800 3600 Village from Tradesman
Weapon-smith/Armourer 480 3400 7200 Village from Tradesman
Weaver/Spinner 120 1200 6000 Village from Artisan
Woodworker/Carpenter 120 1200 4000 Village from Tradesman

If this is applied to a clan of 500 hundred Orlanthi adults we would see the following laymen available to the clan which is approx 21% which seems a good proportion to me.

Profession Layman
in Clan
Artist/Sculpter/Wood Carver 0.83
Baker 4.17
Barber 2.50
Basket maker 4.17
Bathhouse/Public Bath 0.00
Brewer/Beer Seller 4.17
Builder 4.17
Butcher/Fishmonger 4.17
Candle-maker 2.08
Carter/Haulage 4.17
Cartographer 0.25
Cartwright/Shipwright 0.42
Cheese-maker 2.08
Cobbler/Shoemaker 2.08
Distiller 0.83
Engineer/Architect 0.00
Entertainer/Poet/Actor 6.25
Furrier 2.08
General Merchant 1.67
Herbalist 2.78
Horse trader 1.67
Inn 0.00
Jeweller/Goldsmith 0.83
Lawyer/law-speaker 1.25
Leather-worker 4.17
Miller 2.08
Moneylender/Changer 1.67
Pawnshop 2.00
Physician 2.78
Potter 4.17
Prostitute/Brothel 2.78
Roofers/Thatchers 2.08
Rug/Tapestry Maker 1.25
Saddler 1.67
Sage 1.67
Scribe 2.08
Sharpener 4.17
Slaver 0.00
Spice Merchants 0.00
Stonemason 1.67
Tailor 2.78
Tanners 2.78
Tavern/Restaurant 0.00
Tinker/Red-smith 2.08
Vintner/Wine shop 1.67
Weapon-smith/Armourer 1.04
Weaver/Spinner 4.17
Woodworker/Carpenter 4.17

If applied to all 10,000 Orlanthi in the Alone confederacy it would suggest the following numbers of laymen, tradesmen and artisans available.

Profession Laymen Tradesmen Artisans
Artist/Sculpter/Wood Carver 16.67 5.00 2.50
Baker 83.33 12.50 6.25
Barber 50.00 10.00 3.13
Basket maker 83.33 12.50 5.00
Bathhouse/Public Bath 0.00 8.33 1.67
Brewer/Beer Seller 83.33 8.33 2.78
Builder 83.33 5.00 1.25
Butcher/Fishmonger 83.33 16.67 5.00
Candle maker 41.67 12.50 2.50
Carter/Haulage 83.33 6.25 2.50
Cartographer 5.00 1.67 1.00
Cartwright/Shipwright 8.33 2.50 1.25
Cheese maker 41.67 6.25 3.13
Cobbler/Shoemaker 41.67 8.33 2.78
Distiller 16.67 3.33 2.00
Engineer/Architect 0.00 2.50 1.25
Entertainer/Poet/Actor 125.00 3.33 1.67
Furrier 41.67 10.00 2.00
General Merchant 33.33 4.17 2.08
Herbalist 55.56 6.67 3.33
Horse trader 33.33 3.33 1.67
Inn 0.00 5.00 1.67
Jeweller/Goldsmith 16.67 5.00 2.00
Lawyer/law-speaker 25.00 3.33 1.67
Leather-worker 83.33 7.14 2.50
Miller 41.67 5.56 2.50
Moneylender/Changer 33.33 2.78 1.43
Pawnshop 40.00 4.17 2.00
Physician 55.56 3.33 1.67
Potter 83.33 12.50 6.25
Prostitute/Brothel 55.56 16.67 2.78
Roofers/Thatchers 41.67 6.67 3.33
Rug/Tapestry Maker 25.00 5.00 1.67
Saddler 33.33 6.25 2.50
Sage 33.33 4.00 2.50
Scribe 41.67 3.33 1.67
Sharpener 83.33 2.50 0.00
Slaver 0.00 4.17 2.08
Spice Merchants 0.00 2.50 1.25
Stonemason 33.33 5.00 1.67
Tailor 55.56 6.25 2.50
Tanners 55.56 7.14 2.50
Tavern/Restaurant 0.00 10.00 5.00
Tinker/Red-smith 41.67 10.00 3.33
Vintner/Wine-shop 33.33 5.56 2.78
Weapon-smith/Armourer 20.83 2.94 1.39
Weaver/Spinner 83.33 8.33 1.67
Woodworker/Carpenter 83.33 8.33 2.50

Please feel free to comment and feedback as I have said it has been a  wild swing at this, but I think it has been useful also.

Edited to let you know I built a toll to take this a step or two further which can be found here

http://www.backtobalazar.com/gloranthan-trades-and-community-guide